Mediamax’s interview with Stepan Grigoryan, political expert,  candidate of Sasna Tsrer party’s proportional election list.

I was recently talking to one of my friends, who said that he was mostly surprised by two things in these elections: Davit Shahnazaryan’s inclusion among first three candidates of RPA list and your presence in the second place of Sasna Tsrer list. Did you assume during the days of the revolution, about which you wrote a book by the way, that you will be nominated as Armenian MP in Sasna Tsrer list?

I will not hide that I was thinking about nomination from a political force that would be able to create a counterbalance to the new government in the National Assembly. We sometimes forget that we are a parliamentary republic now and we elect the National Assembly, not the Prime Minister.

Obviously, My Step bloc will form a majority in the new National Assembly, and one or two political forces can act as counterbalance. There are also new, interesting forces, but they have no resources to introduce themselves to the voters in this short period of time.

Stepan Grigoryan

Photo: Mediamax

Sasna Tsrer today is the force that can actually counterbalance. Why did I agree to Sasna Tsrer’s proposal? First of all, I am fond of participating in a real political struggle. But before giving my consent, I initiated a meeting with Zhirayr Sefilyan  and other guys to get answers to the questions I was worried about. I was satisfied with their statement, according to which they abandon the armed struggle, since Armenia experienced a revolution. To be honest, I was amazed at their decision to give me a second place on the list. This indicates that Sasna Tsrer really aims to build a force that will unite people of different backgrounds and views.

Mr. Grigoryan, you said that Sasna Tsrer considers the armed struggle over. I heard Gevorg Safaryan a few days ago stating on TV that people, however, have the right of armed uprising that can be exercised in certain circumstances. Let’s agree that Sasna Tsrer party continues using the brand of Sasna Tsrer armed group. Hearing the name of Sasna Tsrer, many of your potential voters still recall the days of the seizure of Police Station in Yerevan. Aren’t you worried that supporters of Sasna Tsrer will actually give their votes not to the political force, but to the group that seized a police station in July 2016, while certain members of Armenian society consider this group of people as terrorists?

You are asking a very sensitive question. Indeed, some people say: “We see that they are good guys, they are honest, patriotic, but can they take such steps again?” I exclude that outcome, otherwise I would not be here.

I spoke with Gevorg Safaryan and I would like to comment on his words. Let’s forget about Armenia for a moment. In any country and society where one person or group of people violate the Constitution by establishing dictatorship, people or at least some of them have the right to resist. That right is also mentioned in the Preamble to the UN Charter. Naturally, this does not mean that it should always be used.

Now, when we have the opportunity to develop democracy in the country, we must concentrate on that purpose. I saw great love for Sasna Tsrer during the visits to marzes. I am glad that Zhirayr Sefilyan, being a hero of war, is a very modest man. We have interesting and qualified people among our first 10 candidates, and I am convinced that this combination of fighters, intellectuals and those with political experience will be fruitful for the Armenian National Assembly.

Stepan Grigoryan

Photo: Mediamax

We have repeatedly stated during the campaign that it is necessary to support today’s government. Whatever people say, we announce that we have come to support Nikol Pashinyan. We want to express other views, another pole without being a harsh opposition. Let me bring an example. Nikol Pashinyan made a brilliant move by dismissing the CSTO Secretary General and proving that Armenia is sovereign state. And we supported this step. However, Pashinyan’s team was unable to advise him not to escalate the situation by claiming that CSTO Secretary General should be a representative of Armenia in the next year and a half. If we were represented in the National Assembly, we would have come up with our proposals and I am sure that Nikol Pashinyan would use them.

What would be your proposals?

We would propose to fight not for keeping the position of CSTO Secretary General, but for fixing issues relating to that position. In other words, what do we do if one day a representative of another country cannot continue carrying out duties due to health reasons, for instance? It is necessary to fix in regulations that another candidate must represent given country in the remaining period.

Don’t you think that if Yuri Khachaturov was first dismissed as CSTO Secretary General after discussions with the leaders of CSTO member states, and then only charged  in Armenia, we could have avoided the noise at all?

I agree that this issue should have been solved on the margins. Permanent Representative of Armenia to CSTO should  have provided appropriate work and presented the situation, and maybe it was necessary to send special envoy to capitals of CSTO member states. I am convinced that although Russia’s first reaction could have been negative, they would understand eventually the logic and the intention of new government to have a new representative.

Stepan Grigoryan

Photo: Mediamax

One of the reasons of this situation is the fact that Nikol Pashinyan’s team has no working solidarity. And I repeat, we want to support Nikol Pashinyan in the National Assembly.

Sasna Tsrer is perceived by some  as an open anti-Russian party and there are opinions that it is dangerous to have such a force in the National Assembly.

We have strict attitude towards the Kremlin’s policy, but we are not an anti-Russian force. Nikol Pashinyan can brilliantly use it, and I will explain how. Let’s assume that an issue within CSTO or EAEU isn’t settled in favor of Armenia. We, naturally, will come up with criticism but in an honest way without “games”. That will allow Pashinyan to tell his colleagues that if our problems aren’t solved, Armenia may as well give preference to a power with a more radical approach.

It should be noted that the CSTO and EAEU are not viable structures. However, we are against impulsive decisions and we don’t say that we should get out of those blocs right tomorrow. We do not want a confrontation with Russia, but we want to point out the need for Russia to change the rules of the game. It’s not normal when the Armenian side pays water and electricity bills for the Russian military base.

Stepan Grigoryan

Photo: Mediamax

Previously, Armenia and Russia shared the expense 50/50, and today Armenia pays almost 100% of the bills. Another example are the documents relating to the Armenian-Russian joint military unit, which read  that in case of hostilities against Armenia, the commander of the unit may be a Russian general. We think that such problems should be corrected without entering into conflict with Russia. Therefore, people shouldn’t be afraid of our “decolonization” term.

Do you exclude the case of Sasna Tsrer’s failure to appear in the National Assembly?

Our meetings in marzes during and before the start of the pre-election campaign show that we have a large number of supporters. So, the chances are great for us, but I will not make assumptions about our possible results. The people will make their decision.

Recently, Nikol Pashinyan has toughened his rhetoric, making strong statements that sometimes even his supporters don’t like. Don’t you think that he wants to attract the most radical part of Armenian society, who are considered to be supporters of Sasna Tsrer?

Our messages sent to Nikol Pashinyan during the campaign were only positive and will remain so, no matter what is said to us. If you follow the pre-election campaign, you have noticed that Nikol Pashinyan almost repeats what Zhirayr Sefilyan says, in particular, his statement about the necessity to finally unite Armenia and Artsakh.

Can Sasna Tsrer show certain flexibility when it comes to Artsakh issue?

In 1988, when the Movement began, the topic of reunification of Armenia and Artsakh prevailed. After 1991, we chose self-determination, as the international community “deified” the principle of territorial integrity, which could only be opposed by the right of self-determination, one of the basic principles of UN. We can argue about correctness of that path, but that decision was made.

Stepan Grigoryan

Photo: Mediamax

Many today forget that Madrid Principles no longer exist and Azerbaijan was the one to reject them. Moreover, no real negotiations have taken place since 2012. Today we have a situation when the Azerbaijani President publicly says that Zangezur and Yerevan are Azerbaijani lands that should be returned. We must respond to these new realities and say that Artsakh is part of our homeland and we have to reunite. We should negotiate about how it happens. I am afraid to certain extent that My Step and other political forces haven’t yet got acquainted with the new situation in depth and simply continue the concept of self-determination.

Ara Tadevosyan talked to Stepan Grigoryan

Photos by Emin Aristakesyan